Actor and comedian Tom Walker talks about creating cult character, YouTube sensation and ranting reporter Jonathan Pie...
What made you create the character of Jonathan Pie, Tom?
Desperation, really. I’d been out of work for a long time as an actor, and I felt that if I didn’t do something myself nothing would ever happen. So I had him in my head for a while and I thought, just do it. So I made a few little films, one of them went viral and that was it. I suddenly had a career back.
Many people thought, at least on the first viewing, that Jonathan was real…
I think the first time you see him or come across him, you kind of go, ‘God, is this for real?’ I think by the second time, you go, ‘Oh... no, it’s not’. Nobody loses it that badly every week.
How did you go about evolving him as a character?
The evolution had to come very quickly because the first couple of videos I did happened to be about politics. The first one was about Jeremy Corbyn, and then the next week the story about our prime minister at the time and a pig got released, and you go, “I can’t ignore that”. Very quickly I realised it was the politics that people were tuning in for; it was the satire of it. Originally I conceived him as ‘Isn’t it funny when things go wrong to newsreaders’ or ‘Isn’t it funny when a newsreader flips’. That’s what it was all about, really - the political satire wasn’t there when I originally conceived it, but very quickly I realised that people were seeing it as a piece of political satire, so that was what I needed to go with. I never once, before Pie, had been in the pub having a discussion about politics, but now that seems to be all anyone wants to talk to me about - which is fine - but I don’t care as much as the character does, which I think actually helps me write him.
He certainly has left leanings, would you say?
Yes, he does. He’s a lefty, a proper old-school lefty, which is why he likes Corbyn. But I think the satire is more balanced than he is. It’s quite easy for him to hate Trump because I’ve not met anyone in this country who likes him, so that’s a universal thing. But I think the other hot potato is Brexit, and when it comes to Brexit he’s actually pretty balanced. Because he’s an old-school lefty, he knows what’s wrong with the EU. He knows that it’s not this eutopia full of different creeds holding hands and singing. He knows that it’s a corporate block which is all about the interest of corporations, but he also knows that economically we’re better off in it. So actually, when it comes to Brexit, he speaks for leavers and remainers. So I think, as I said, the satire is more balanced than he is.
Would you say that most people’s politics are more nuanced than Pie’s? As a character he simplifies things and people maybe find that more engaging?
It is simplified because I’m writing a three or four-minute piece each week, and normally there’s one, maybe two, points that I’m trying to make. So he does over-simplify. But I don’t think that people recognise their political views are nuanced. I think these days, especially on the left, people go, “You either agreed with me 100% or you’re on their side.” You know what I mean? Anyone who votes Conservative is a bigot and anyone who voted leave is a bigot. So I think the left are in danger of forgetting political nuance. I hope, actually, that Pie reminds them of it.
How does that transpire in the live show?
Well, I’ve got an hour or so to actually explore things harder, and so I’m much more able to have a go at the left because they’re not going to turn off. In this new show I’ve just written, a main section in the middle is having a go at us lefties and saying where we’re going wrong. I’m much more able, when I’ve got a bit of length to the show, to explore where the Tories are going wrong, where Trump is going wrong, but also where we’re going wrong. So I think the satire is much more balanced in the live show.
Do you think that Jonathan will evolve further - for example, as Steve Coogan evolved Alan Partridge?
That would be great. I mean, I’d love to see Pie on TV, and I’d like to see where he comes from and where he works and to meet who he works with. But I don’t think there’s a TV channel out there that’s quite ready for Pie. I think maybe 10 or 15 years ago they might have been more open to it - I don’t know if the BBC would make The Thick Of It now. I think from my few encounters with TV people, they’re very risk-averse. I would love to see Pie evolve, but I need someone to take a punt on him first.
If Jonathan Pie existed in the real, minute-by-minute world and you met him in a pub, do you think you’d get on well?
I’m not sure, actually. Like I say, everyone wants to talk to me about politics in the pub, and on my downtime I’m not that interested because I spend my day following the news and reading articles. Every comedy character has a fault at their core, and Pie’s is that he can’t not talk about politics, and when he talks about politics, he can’t not get angry. So I think after about half an hour I’d be like, “Can we talk about something else?” So I don’t know.
Have you found yourself in any awkward situations midst recording your outside broadcasts?
No, not at all. Because I’m still cult - niche, if you like - the people who recognise me are the people who know me, and the people who know me are the people who like me. So I’ve never had anyone really have a go. I’ve had people interrupt recording, as they think it’s funny to stick two fingers up at the camera, and that’s when you can’t really distinguish between the two of us, because I do tear them a new one. When I’ve got a suit on and a camera there, everyone recognises me; when I’m walking around in my hoody and have a hat on, looking scruffy, no one recognises me at all.
So in real life you’re not sweary but really polite?
No, unfortunately not. I am a bit sweary. We have a similar vocabulary…
Tom Walker appears as Jonathan Pie at Victoria Hall, Stoke-on-Trent, on Thursday 1 March; Warwick Arts Centre, Coventry, on Wednesday 7 March; and New Alexandra Theatre, Birmingham, on Thursday 8 March.
Actor and comedian Tom Walker talks about creating cult character, YouTube sensation and ranting reporter Jonathan Pie...
What made you create the character of Jonathan Pie, Tom?
Desperation, really. I’d been out of work for a long time as an actor, and I felt that if I didn’t do something myself nothing would ever happen. So I had him in my head for a while and I thought, just do it. So I made a few little films, one of them went viral and that was it. I suddenly had a career back.
Many people thought, at least on the first viewing, that Jonathan was real…
I think the first time you see him or come across him, you kind of go, ‘God, is this for real?’ I think by the second time, you go, ‘Oh... no, it’s not’. Nobody loses it that badly every week.
How did you go about evolving him as a character?
The evolution had to come very quickly because the first couple of videos I did happened to be about politics. The first one was about Jeremy Corbyn, and then the next week the story about our prime minister at the time and a pig got released, and you go, “I can’t ignore that”. Very quickly I realised it was the politics that people were tuning in for; it was the satire of it. Originally I conceived him as ‘Isn’t it funny when things go wrong to newsreaders’ or ‘Isn’t it funny when a newsreader flips’. That’s what it was all about, really - the political satire wasn’t there when I originally conceived it, but very quickly I realised that people were seeing it as a piece of political satire, so that was what I needed to go with. I never once, before Pie, had been in the pub having a discussion about politics, but now that seems to be all anyone wants to talk to me about - which is fine - but I don’t care as much as the character does, which I think actually helps me write him.
He certainly has left leanings, would you say?
Yes, he does. He’s a lefty, a proper old-school lefty, which is why he likes Corbyn. But I think the satire is more balanced than he is. It’s quite easy for him to hate Trump because I’ve not met anyone in this country who likes him, so that’s a universal thing. But I think the other hot potato is Brexit, and when it comes to Brexit he’s actually pretty balanced. Because he’s an old-school lefty, he knows what’s wrong with the EU. He knows that it’s not this eutopia full of different creeds holding hands and singing. He knows that it’s a corporate block which is all about the interest of corporations, but he also knows that economically we’re better off in it. So actually, when it comes to Brexit, he speaks for leavers and remainers. So I think, as I said, the satire is more balanced than he is.
Would you say that most people’s politics are more nuanced than Pie’s? As a character he simplifies things and people maybe find that more engaging?
It is simplified because I’m writing a three or four-minute piece each week, and normally there’s one, maybe two, points that I’m trying to make. So he does over-simplify. But I don’t think that people recognise their political views are nuanced. I think these days, especially on the left, people go, “You either agreed with me 100% or you’re on their side.” You know what I mean? Anyone who votes Conservative is a bigot and anyone who voted leave is a bigot. So I think the left are in danger of forgetting political nuance. I hope, actually, that Pie reminds them of it.
How does that transpire in the live show?
Well, I’ve got an hour or so to actually explore things harder, and so I’m much more able to have a go at the left because they’re not going to turn off. In this new show I’ve just written, a main section in the middle is having a go at us lefties and saying where we’re going wrong. I’m much more able, when I’ve got a bit of length to the show, to explore where the Tories are going wrong, where Trump is going wrong, but also where we’re going wrong. So I think the satire is much more balanced in the live show.
Do you think that Jonathan will evolve further - for example, as Steve Coogan evolved Alan Partridge?
That would be great. I mean, I’d love to see Pie on TV, and I’d like to see where he comes from and where he works and to meet who he works with. But I don’t think there’s a TV channel out there that’s quite ready for Pie. I think maybe 10 or 15 years ago they might have been more open to it - I don’t know if the BBC would make The Thick Of It now. I think from my few encounters with TV people, they’re very risk-averse. I would love to see Pie evolve, but I need someone to take a punt on him first.
If Jonathan Pie existed in the real, minute-by-minute world and you met him in a pub, do you think you’d get on well?
I’m not sure, actually. Like I say, everyone wants to talk to me about politics in the pub, and on my downtime I’m not that interested because I spend my day following the news and reading articles. Every comedy character has a fault at their core, and Pie’s is that he can’t not talk about politics, and when he talks about politics, he can’t not get angry. So I think after about half an hour I’d be like, “Can we talk about something else?” So I don’t know.
Have you found yourself in any awkward situations midst recording your outside broadcasts?
No, not at all. Because I’m still cult - niche, if you like - the people who recognise me are the people who know me, and the people who know me are the people who like me. So I’ve never had anyone really have a go. I’ve had people interrupt recording, as they think it’s funny to stick two fingers up at the camera, and that’s when you can’t really distinguish between the two of us, because I do tear them a new one. When I’ve got a suit on and a camera there, everyone recognises me; when I’m walking around in my hoody and have a hat on, looking scruffy, no one recognises me at all.
So in real life you’re not sweary but really polite?
No, unfortunately not. I am a bit sweary. We have a similar vocabulary…
Tom Walker appears as Jonathan Pie at Victoria Hall, Stoke-on-Trent, on Thursday 1 March; Warwick Arts Centre, Coventry, on Wednesday 7 March; and New Alexandra Theatre, Birmingham, on Thursday 8 March.
Interview by Brian O'Faolain